by: Victoria Breeze
China is developing high speed trains that can go on both high-speed and normal track lines. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8246600.stm). I’ve been to China and been on every train from the bullet train in Shanghai to the slower-than-slow, overcrowded, stops at every chicken farm train in central China. Thus I’m all for the expansive, and expensive, developments in train lines that China has in the next few years. However, as we all know China has major environmental problems. So I was wondering, how environmentally friendly all these new trains will be. For that matter, how environmentally friendly are China’s trains now? From what I can tell, thanks to Wikipedia, most Chinese trains that run today are electricity based. At this point almost 80% of China’s power is provided by coal. More trains imply more power required and at this point that power will come from coal. A huge policy issue in China is how to reduce environmental problems (i.e. dependence on coal) while still supporting a massive country constantly modernizing and expanding. I think China’s train developments highlight this: an ever growing population of migrant workers means new train lines are needed. At the same time, new train lines require an abundance of new energy which will most likely be provided by coal. Problematic? Yes. However, I believe the train example also presents a solution. As long as China can replace coal as the source of energy (with something more sustainable –wind, water, etc) new train lines can continue to be built without threatening the environment or China’s development. Two points I’d like to ask the readers about, broadening from this train example. One: Do you think China’s development can be paired with sustainability? Two: should America invest more in trains since they have the potential to run on clean energy (and just make fun traveling)?
12 comments:
I'm all in favor of more public transportation in whatever country (I would give up my car entirely if they would just start running buses up to Copper Mountain in the winter). This post brings up an interesting empirical question--one of trends and/or trends projection. If we all use public transportation instead of private but the public transportation is being powered from a less-clean power source (coal vs. gasoline, etc.) are we getting any better?
My intuition is that the answer is yes, but I'm not able to support that intuition with any hard evidence. It's conceivable that trains are more polluting/carbon emitting if they're run by coal than even the comparable number of private automobiles, but my suspicion is that, because trains are much more efficient than cars, even the dirtiest train is still a lot better than a fleet of even the most efficient cars. But some of you might have some technical knowledge of these points--anyone care to fill us in?
In response to your first question, I don't think China has any incentive to provide sustainable transportation because their economy is doing exceptionally well without it. In reality, working towards sustainability probably just seems like a financial burden at this point. In light of every nation's right to sovereignty, no one can tell China whether sustainability is the right path to take. However, with time and the correct economic incentive, China might be compelled to modify their energy practices.
As for America investing in trains, I think it's a great idea...but only if we're going to do it right. Trains have immense potential in terms of solar power, hybrid systems, etc. If technology allows the U.S. to create energy efficient trains, then absolutely. Energy efficient train travel could put us on the right path toward more sustainable travel in general.
I would agree that China's main concern is not to run public transportation on clean energy. Developing countries, like China, have much lower standards and incentives when it comes to sustainable energy. I would say that heath, food, and education are bigger issues. Back to what Glenn was saying, if China is willing to invest in these train systems, no matter how efficient they are, it seems like it would be better, overall, than individual, petroleum-based cars. Only if they were used my the majority of the public. With China's quick economic growth at this point, forcing anything environmentally sustainable will be under their radar I think.
Another thing: is there potential for China to replace all of it's energy use from coal with wind and water? At this point, it seems like there is not an energy alternative in place that will have the power to replace what China is using, and definitely not at all close to replacing what the US is using in terms of energy.
Of the 6.7 billion people that inhabit our world, 1.3 billion of them are residents of China, that’s 20% of our world’s total population. With numbers like these and an ever increasing growth rate, it seems amazing to me that China can even remain to be the slightest bit environmentally friendly or conscious.
Everyone needs to get somewhere, and with so many people I think China’s best option for transportation is definitely trains. In regards to the post, my first question is; is it even possible for trains to run on these alternate sources of energy like wind and water? If yes, than I think it is a great idea, though it will of course take a very long time to install these new trains and get rid of the old electric ones that run on coal. Also I hate to be a pessimist, but when looking at the big picture and whether China’s development can ever be paired with sustainability I would at this point say no. The country is just growing too fast and from what I’ve known and heard the country seems to be quite ignorant of their environmental impacts.
In regards to America and building more trains across this country, I personally think it would be a great idea. Public transportation of any kind would have many positive benefits for the environment, be a safer alternative of travel than cars and could possibly create a better lifestyle in general for many Americans. I really have no idea if Americans themselves would utilize this new transportation alternative enough for it to be affordable and reasonable, but I do think it would be worth the try.
-Alexa Turzian
I agree with Kylie. I do not think at this point in time China has many incentives to produce clean energy trains. China is a rapidly developing country and economic studies show that until a country is developed and doing well economically it has little interest in environmental protection. Its first concern is boosting the economy and making its people better off (unless the government is corrupt and has no human rights concerns).
I think the United States should have more public transportation available and should of in the past made more railroads instead of promoting the inefficient car. Public transportation is so much more efficient than individuals driving cars everyday.
I agree with professor Wright. Even though I do not have nay technical knowledge about which is more efficient, it is just more logical to have more trains in America. we can benefit greatly from not constantly relying on foreign oil as well as creating a society that is more sustainable. It almost seems obvious that we should have more public transportation in general. I have been in Boulder for three years and I still don't have a car. This is because Boulder has such a great bus system, one that shows me that public transportation is a viable option.
I am in favor with what most of the people are saying. There is a huge debate over whether or not developed countries can influence environmental impacts in developing countries. I think especially in the case of china which is a major developing country establishing a good economy they have no interest in reversing this process. Developed countries can't push sustainability on developing countries but we can try and help encourage them to do it on their own. As far as america putting in trains I think it would be a great idea. If we can do it with the least amount of environmental impacts this could significantly reduce the amount of greenhouse gasses.
I also agree with most of what everyone has said. Personally, I don't think China will be influenced by America or any other country for that matter. China holds the most people and also a lot of power. For now it appears that Chinas concern is to meet the needs of its people and not the needs of the environment. Plus how long would it take (if ever) for China to stop using coal and switch over to a friendly source it just seem unlikely.
As far as using more trains in America, I am for it but I don't think everyone would be. Unless people have an incentive or law to switch to public I just don't think most people will. In most areas the roads are not crowded enough to make people not want the comfort of their own car. Until put rules on the amount people can drive, trains seem out of the question.
1. I believe it has already been shown that China is "run amok" environmentally. So asking if sustainability can be paired with growth is already being answered with a resounding "NO!!!" (remember, they had to shut down industry just to clear up the air enough for the olympics!)
2. Regarding trains and electric power: Our society tends to be pretty spread out, meaning we still need some transportation AFTER the train drops us off. My personal issue with public transport is that it is not efficient unless you live near a single line that takes you to a final destination. I.e. if you live in Gunbarrel, or Nederland, or somewhere on the outskirts, public transit can really suck. Combine this with the need for long distance power transmission, and you see why there is no electric "Ski train". The other problem is that, no matter how much you romanticize public transit, it is smelly and you have to deal with the public. The "general public" alone is enough to make we want to drive in my car, but then again the general public tends to piss me off...
In response to this and to what Mr. Wright said I also am fully in favor of better public transportation no matter where it is and even if it is less clean now if we get in the habit of using public transportation then we can work on its efficiency and technology will grow from there, but first we need people using it.
I feel that passenger trains that travel more on a national scale as compared to a local scale would be a good place to start. More people would be inclined to use them if the ticket prices are less than airlines, and they are also good in the sense of the relative amount of CO2 and other pollutants released per person is lower that that of the automobile.
David McKinley
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